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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to episode number 30 of the

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point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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when it comes to the matter of informing

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a naive general public

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about the reality of the ufo phenomenon

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many more familiar with the topic will

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argue that the way to

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introduce this subject to the broader

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population

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is to begin by focusing on what are in

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some ways

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the most relatable or at least the least

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objectionable aspects of the entire

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enterprise

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and for most that means focusing on the

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fact that we have documented evidence

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going back decades of sophisticated

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aerial vehicles

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being intelligently controlled in the

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while the topic clearly goes much deeper

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than that it's understandable that many

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would want to focus on this

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angle they would argue let's inform a

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general public that's been existing in a

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state of ignorance up until now

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that advanced craft performing death

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defying and at least based on our

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current model of reality

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often physics-defying maneuvers have

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been legitimately

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and repeatedly observed and recorded in

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and around the atmosphere of our planet

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once that's been established we can move

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on to the more paradigm shaking aspects

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of the phenomenon

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of course front and center when it comes

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to those more paradigm shaking aspects

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of this phenomenon

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involves these apparently non-human

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intelligences interacting

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face-to-face and up close and personal

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with a surprisingly large segment of the

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human population

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here we're speaking of so-called

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abductions shocking events that involve

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these apparent aliens

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entering people's homes and often taking

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people back

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to the sophisticated craft that have

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been observed in our skies

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robert hastings is a long-time

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well-informed ufo enthusiast

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who long argued for just such an

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approach

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he's been known throughout ufology as a

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nose to the ground

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nuts and bolts show me the data ultra

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pragmatic and hyper rational researcher

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and was much respected for it many saw

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him as exactly the kind of science-based

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researcher this field

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long seen by some as too full of wu

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to be taken seriously needed in order to

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establish this topic

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as a credible field of inquiry amongst

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academia

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hastings specific focus spanning over

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decades

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was on the documenting and

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evidence-based recording

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of shocking events involving ufos making

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incursions into highly secure

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and ultra-sensitive nuclear weapons

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facilities

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across the united states hastings has

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been driven

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by an uncannily singular focus to bring

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this matter to the attention of the

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general public

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despite what he saw as clear and

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long-standing efforts by the u.s

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government

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to cover up such events as i say

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so-called nuts and bolts researchers

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those who focus on the

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technology and the presence of these

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apparently non-humanly engineered

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craft in our skies long respected

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hastings for his pragmatic

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evidence-based approach however

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that perception of hastings took a turn

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in a surprising direction

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just a few short years ago when hastings

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along with co-author

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bob jacobs published confession our

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hidden

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alien encounters revealed this book

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which sent shockwaves throughout the

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field of ufology

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detailed lifelong personal encounters

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between hastings

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and these apparent aliens yes indeed to

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many people's shock

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and no doubt horror hastings had emerged

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from the shadows

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to publicly identify himself as a

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contact d

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slash abductee not only was this in

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itself a surprising turn of events

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but it of course raised all sorts of

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questions regarding the steely singular

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focus

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of hastings to bring this topic of what

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he called

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ufos and nukes to the public's attention

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after realizing he'd been interacting

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with these beings for decades

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going back indeed to childhood hastings

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couldn't help but wonder if

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underlyingly his lifelong mission was

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actually one encouraged

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and even subconsciously implanted by

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these non-human

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others the questions and implications

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that arise as a result of hastings

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revelations

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of contact are profound and far-reaching

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and these are the very matters will

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endeavor to unravel

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in this the 30th episode of the point of

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[Music]

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as i mentioned in the introduction

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robert hastings long identified himself

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as a hyper-rational ultra-pragmatic

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researcher

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he would only document and interview

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witnesses

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who gave testimony that was beyond a

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shadow of a doubt

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and he always checked their bona fides

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their character

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etc this is how robert hastings

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describes his own public face

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in his book confession our hidden alien

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encounters revealed

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which he co-authored with bob jacobs

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quote my public face is that of the

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leading researcher of ufo activity

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at nuclear weapons sites as revealed in

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hundreds

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of declassified u.s government documents

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and the testimony of more than 160

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u.s military veterans whom i've

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interviewed over the past

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46 years some of those individuals

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including a few retired colonels say

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that ufos have actually tampered with

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american intercontinental ballistic

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missiles

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icbms rendering them temporarily

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inoperable significantly cnn

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live streamed my september 27 2010 press

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conference

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in washington dc during which seven of

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these veterans discussed their personal

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ufo encounters

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at icbm sites and nuke storage

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facilities

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the press release associated with that

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event went viral on the internet

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suggesting worldwide interest in the

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topic

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since 1981 i have presented my research

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findings

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at more than 500 u.s colleges and

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universities

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as well as oxford university in england

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in a program titled

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ufos the hidden history public and

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academic reaction to the lecture has

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been overwhelmingly

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favorable as the hundreds of letters of

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recommendation

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in my possession attest unquote

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but as i mentioned in the introduction

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that particular public face

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of robert hastings was only part of the

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story

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and once hastings became clear

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and convinced of an ongoing contact

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he had had with an alien species he

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decided

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after much consideration to come forward

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it was a shock wave as i said to all of

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ufology

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because those who try to steer clear of

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the quote-unquote

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woo factor look to hastings as someone

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who was

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hyper rational ultra-pragmatic looked at

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the data

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only interviewed witnesses who were of a

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military nature

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or high-standing character of that sort

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so when he came forward to say not only

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did he believe

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in the woo nature that some consider

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anyway when it comes to abductions

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contact with actual aliens but he

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identified himself

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as one of those very people again it was

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a

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in the public

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and even his credibility would be

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changed and called into question

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this is what hastings says about his

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reluctance in deciding to write and

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publish this book

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quote several friends and acquaintances

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have urged me not to write this book

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they are undoubtedly correct in saying

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that there will be a negative

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consequence for me personally and for my

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reputation as a reliable

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nuts and bolts researcher who models his

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work on principles integral to

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investigative journalism

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nevertheless after much hesitation and

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reflection

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i have concluded that i must confess

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something i have long hidden from the

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public

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i have had unsought interactions with

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what i have come to believe

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are non-human intelligences i use the

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term

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non-human because during some of my

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experiences

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sentient beings who were clearly not

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members of our species

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were present and orchestrating events

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in adding some further definition to the

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nature of these beings he interacted

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with

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this is how hastings describe them quote

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i do not know whether these entities are

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from other worlds

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in our universe flash multiverse or from

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another dimension of reality

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but i do know that my experiences were

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physically

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real not psychological fantasies

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unquote now because people are coming to

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this topic

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from different backgrounds and some are

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more familiar with the entire history

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than

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others i think it's useful to step back

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for a moment

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and talk about the differences in terms

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of factions within ufology

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as i described hastings and people like

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him there is a certain faction

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that only wants to stick with the nuts

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and bolts nature of these

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encounters and when i say encounters i

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mean

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sightings of ufos in the skies

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sometimes also landed as well but what

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they want to focus on

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is tangible physically verifiable

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measurable aspects of this phenomenon

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photographs video soil samples

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radar returns that kind of thing and as

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i say for a long time hastings was in

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that camp

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he also saw that the way to overcome the

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prejudice against this topic

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is to be hyper rational ultra pragmatic

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rely on demonstrable data etc

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there is another segment of the

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population

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that is interested in this phenomenon

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that recognize

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what the other side considers the wu

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nature

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and by that i mean there is a

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consciousness aspect

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involved that often contact with actual

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beings and abductions take place

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00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:07,040
and various elements of the size

295
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:09,279
spectrum also come along here

296
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:12,160
things like telepathy come into play

297
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,120
passing

298
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:15,839
through physical walls things like that

299
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:17,040
and the control

300
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:24,710
as i mentioned hastings focused on a

301
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:25,760
hyper-rational

302
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,399
data-backed approach to this topic

303
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:30,959
because he knew this was the only chance

304
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,240
this topic had of being taken seriously

305
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:36,720
by the media by the general public and

306
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:37,839
even more so

307
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,480
by the academic infrastructure he

308
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:43,120
recognized that for many in our society

309
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,519
the abduction slash contact aspect of

310
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:46,720
the phenomenon

311
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:49,920
was simply a bridge too far even if this

312
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:52,240
meant a clear demonstration of a double

313
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:52,880
standard

314
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:55,839
for evidence this is what he says in his

315
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:56,240
book

316
00:12:02,550 --> 00:11:59,839
regarding this matter quote so why was

317
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:02,560
the abc program so prejudiced against

318
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:03,360
the abduction

319
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,079
topic the reason seems to be that many

320
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,920
people who are willing to impartially

321
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,880
examine

322
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:11,519
a ufo sighting report are not prepared

323
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,079
to extend the same benefit of the doubt

324
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:16,000
to individuals who claim to have been

325
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:17,200
taken aboard

326
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:20,079
one of these craft by aliens or in other

327
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,800
cases

328
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,279
to have been visited by such entities in

329
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,800
their bedroom

330
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:27,120
it's simply a bridge too far for many

331
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,160
folks

332
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:30,079
although most of the critics have never

333
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:31,200
studied or even

334
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,240
casually examined the abduction data the

335
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,720
mere idea just seems too crazy for them

336
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,160
to contemplate

337
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,959
hence they dismiss it out of hand in

338
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,880
light of abc's program

339
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:44,480
it's clear that some members of the

340
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:47,680
media are not immune to this bias

341
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,629
now in a few moments we'll get to

342
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:54,160
hastings own

343
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:58,000
abduction contact experiences but first

344
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,320
like hastings does in his book let's

345
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,160
address some of the generalities that

346
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,079
have been noticed when it comes to this

347
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,720
aspect of the phenomenon quoting from

348
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:07,839
his book again

349
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,240
quote a significant percentage of

350
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,519
abduction reports

351
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:13,920
involve unsuppressed memories that are

352
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,040
readily accessible without hypnosis

353
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,920
that said in most cases the abductees

354
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:21,839
recall regarding the encounter

355
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:25,760
is nil or nearly so nevertheless even in

356
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:28,079
those cases where remembering the core

357
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:28,880
experience

358
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,600
is initially beyond one's grasp

359
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,120
fragmentary details

360
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:35,279
such as observing the approach and or

361
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:36,240
departure

362
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:39,519
of a ufo accompanied by a period

363
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,680
of missing time are retained

364
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,680
oddly although these memories are

365
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:47,839
suggestive of something anomalous having

366
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:50,720
occurred they are usually accompanied by

367
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:50,959
a

368
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,440
week you'll remember

369
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:04,000
my description of an experience my wife

370
00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:04,959
and i had

371
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:08,000
that involved just this sort of thing an

372
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:10,399
inappropriate response based on the

373
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,079
situation

374
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:14,800
specifically i went back to bed after

375
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:16,079
having encountered an

376
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:18,959
entity that was in our room our hotel

377
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:19,600
room

378
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:22,720
and who disappeared through a wall not

379
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:25,040
expected behavior and yet that's what i

380
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,000
did

381
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:29,519
this again is not uncommon many people

382
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,079
do this

383
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,720
and this definitely is indicative of

384
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:33,839
some sort of

385
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:36,800
consciousness control behavior control

386
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:37,360
of these

387
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:40,560
entities of human beings and again this

388
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:41,040
is what

389
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:43,279
hastings is talking about here when he

390
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,240
discusses a

391
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,959
dazed disinterest inappropriate for the

392
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,399
situation

393
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:50,560
and he has some of these very same

394
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:51,440
occurrences

395
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:58,230
now as we've discussed before on this

396
00:15:02,310 --> 00:14:59,519
podcast

397
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:02,320
many experiences that people have seem

398
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:03,279
to take place

399
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:06,480
in some sort of trans physical realm or

400
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:09,920
alternate state of mind or consciousness

401
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:12,560
that said there clearly is a physical

402
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,600
overlap

403
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:15,600
and like jacques villa said there is

404
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,720
both a physical

405
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,880
and a psychic component to this

406
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,320
phenomenon

407
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:23,120
and hastings does an excellent job of

408
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:23,920
evidencing

409
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:26,959
both in this book he for instance

410
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:28,160
discusses

411
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,240
devices that have been implanted in

412
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:32,959
people these are physical objects that

413
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:35,600
can be measured even retrieved

414
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,560
this is what he says quote while most

415
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,000
abduction related data

416
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,880
are anecdotal the evidence for implanted

417
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:44,480
technological devices

418
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:47,120
in some experiencers is physical in

419
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:48,399
nature

420
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,399
over a 19-year period beginning in 1995

421
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:55,440
dr roger lear a california pediatric

422
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:56,160
surgeon

423
00:16:02,550 --> 00:15:59,360
removed 18 foreign objects with various

424
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:02,560
anatomical locations in 17

425
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:04,880
different patients some of whom claimed

426
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:05,839
to have had

427
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:09,040
contact with non-human entities

428
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:12,720
unquote now that we've established that

429
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,680
there are clearly

430
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:16,160
physical aspects to this phenomenon in

431
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,199
things like

432
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:19,279
measurable flight paths and radar

433
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,320
returns

434
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,639
data samples from soil and things like

435
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,240
that regarding

436
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:26,720
physical craft manifesting in our

437
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:28,480
physical environment

438
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:31,759
there is also the aspect of contact

439
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:35,360
abduction etc now let's get to the part

440
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,759
of his book where hastings

441
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:39,920
begins to piece together what he comes

442
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:42,240
to realize is a lifetime

443
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:45,360
of contact quote

444
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,519
on the night of august 12th to 13th 1988

445
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,320
i was camping near the manzano mountains

446
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:53,839
of central new mexico

447
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:56,800
with my friend maria her family and

448
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:57,680
friends

449
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,320
approximately a dozen people in all

450
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,880
maria's family and i shared a large tent

451
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,799
others were in smaller tents and one

452
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,000
woman carol

453
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:08,079
and her daughter were sleeping in their

454
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:09,120
van

455
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,400
at precisely 3 am i looked at my watch

456
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,799
i was awakened by maria's 21 year old

457
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:16,720
daughter excitedly shouting

458
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,559
what are those lights what are those

459
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,839
lights

460
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,600
five or six of us got up and went

461
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,439
outside to see what the commotion was

462
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:24,640
all about

463
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,120
i saw two very bright white strobe

464
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:29,760
lights moving rapidly away in the sky

465
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,240
in a northerly direction i could not

466
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,679
discern whether they were

467
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:36,080
both attached to a single dark object or

468
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:36,880
aircraft

469
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:39,280
or were two separate fully illuminated

470
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,320
objects

471
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:42,160
however because they remained in the

472
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,360
same position

473
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:45,520
and at the same distance relative to one

474
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,480
another

475
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,320
my assumption was that they were lights

476
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,880
attached to a single unseen aircraft of

477
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,160
some kind

478
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,080
i would estimate that when i first saw

479
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:56,320
them they were between a quarter and a

480
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,520
half a mile distant

481
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,760
based on the geographical landmarks that

482
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,240
appeared to be directly beneath them

483
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,320
after perhaps a minute's observation i

484
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:08,160
decided that the lights were probably

485
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:09,919
anti-collision strobes

486
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:12,480
on a commercial airliner on approach to

487
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:14,080
albuquerque international

488
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:17,280
airport some 30 miles away after i had

489
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,480
reached this conclusion

490
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:20,240
i didn't give the sighting a second

491
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,000
thought and oddly

492
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:23,840
didn't even think to ask maria's

493
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:26,240
daughter why she was so agitated

494
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:30,880
about the presence of the lights unquote

495
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:33,200
now already here you can clearly see

496
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:34,559
that hastings

497
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:36,799
is wondering about his reactions

498
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:39,120
questioning his behavior

499
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:41,919
he recognizes that it's odd to use his

500
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:42,640
words

501
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,280
that he didn't inquire further as to why

502
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:46,880
maria's daughter was so

503
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:49,760
particularly agitated by the presence of

504
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:50,720
the lights

505
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:52,960
if these were just typical airplane

506
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:54,960
lights you wouldn't think she would be

507
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:57,280
so worked up

508
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:00,720
now as is often the case this one

509
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:03,600
event began to trigger other memories

510
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,120
this sometimes happens

511
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,160
in a kind of cascade that leads to

512
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:11,360
memories arising over a lifetime

513
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,720
this is what hastings says quote perhaps

514
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,919
not surprisingly

515
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,320
shortly after the camping trip incident

516
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:20,880
i began to wonder about certain striking

517
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:21,600
thoughts

518
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:24,400
i will call them memories that i had had

519
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:24,799
as an

520
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,760
adolescent involving my being in a

521
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:28,720
cornfield

522
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:31,120
with unidentified individuals who

523
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:33,679
subsequently led me into a house

524
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:36,400
where i saw my entire family seated

525
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:38,799
around a table motionless

526
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:42,160
and blankly staring into space

527
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:43,840
although i hadn't thought about those

528
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:46,240
vivid mental impressions for years

529
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,360
they now took on a new significance

530
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,760
after all certain aspects of the earlier

531
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:52,720
flashbacks

532
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,520
were very similar to recent events

533
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,520
memories of being taken away from my

534
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:59,760
family by mysterious figures

535
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:02,000
who had messed with me in some manner in

536
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,200
a cornfield

537
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:05,840
before returning me to my temporarily

538
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:06,720
zombie-like

539
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,240
kinfolk to me all of these apparent

540
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:12,640
recollections seem to hint that an

541
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,280
experience

542
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:15,600
similar to the camping trip event may

543
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:16,720
have occurred

544
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,679
much earlier in my life unquote

545
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:23,440
now i hope you caught the precise

546
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,000
details of that particular encounter

547
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:29,039
from hastings childhood the details are

548
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:30,720
startling

549
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:33,360
what he's describing is basically when

550
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:33,760
these

551
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,640
others need to take him away they can

552
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,000
place his family

553
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:41,360
in frozen animation basically he recalls

554
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,640
seeing his family

555
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:45,120
frozen in place you can imagine them

556
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:46,159
fork in hand

557
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:48,000
leaning over the plate as if about to

558
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:49,760
take a bite but frozen

559
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:52,960
all of them the entire scene is frozen

560
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,000
from their point of view time stops

561
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:58,240
and while that's the case these others

562
00:21:02,630 --> 00:20:59,679
take him somewhere else

563
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,640
give him instructions schooling who

564
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,240
knows what else happens

565
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,240
we'll get to that later but when he is

566
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:08,480
brought back he finds his family

567
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:11,919
is still frozen in place and he's seated

568
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:12,720
at the table

569
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:16,400
and only then do they reanimate and

570
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:18,400
from their point of view he never left

571
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,320
there was no missing time

572
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,720
but of course from his vantage point

573
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,400
local time was frozen

574
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:27,360
while these others interacted with him

575
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:28,559
this demonstrates

576
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,679
just the level of control they have not

577
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:33,280
only of our perception

578
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:36,159
but of our apparent reality it really is

579
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:41,830
now later on hastings has another

580
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,559
encounter

581
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:45,039
this time in a hotel room and he

582
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:46,320
remembers being

583
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,000
suddenly levitated only after he somehow

584
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,240
psychically knew that they were there

585
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,320
the same ones as before

586
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:56,720
were there again and perhaps we're going

587
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,240
to take him again

588
00:22:01,669 --> 00:22:00,400
he sensed this telepathically before

589
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,679
anything happened

590
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,440
and then before he knew it he was

591
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,200
levitated and then

592
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,960
passed right through the ceiling of the

593
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,559
hotel

594
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:10,320
this is what he says about these kinds

595
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,600
of encounters

596
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,559
quote such occurrences abductees and

597
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:16,960
their captors passing through walls

598
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,760
closed windows and so on are widely

599
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,320
reported in the abduction literature

600
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,799
exactly how the entities achieve this is

601
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,559
at present unknown

602
00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:28,799
however once again the manipulation of

603
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:29,840
space-time

604
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,080
including the solid objects found within

605
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,360
it seems to be one possible explanation

606
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,440
it would appear that a corridor or

607
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:39,600
portal is created through matter

608
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:42,080
allowing the unimpeded passage of other

609
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,679
solid objects

610
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:45,360
whether the destination is another

611
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:47,120
location in space-time

612
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,720
or some other dimension is indeterminate

613
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:53,039
over the past three decades numerous

614
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,360
peer-reviewed papers have been published

615
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:57,200
which propose the existence of an

616
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,559
all-encompassing

617
00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,640
multi-dimensional reality in which our

618
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:02,320
own space-time universe

619
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:05,360
is only one component

620
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,000
in my case all i know with certainty is

621
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:10,320
that i didn't have a bump on my forehead

622
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,919
the next morning from hitting the

623
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,400
ceiling so i somehow passed through it

624
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,159
with no ill effects

625
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,480
regarding the overwhelming telepathic

626
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:20,559
sense i experienced just before lifting

627
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:21,679
off the bed

628
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:24,880
of the unseen unheard but nevertheless

629
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:28,080
very real presence of my abductors this

630
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:30,240
again does not really surprise me

631
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,880
given that such pression impressions are

632
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:34,159
widely reported

633
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,559
by other abductees unquote

634
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,200
now i'd like to share one more example

635
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:43,200
of the kind of encounters that hastings

636
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:43,840
has had

637
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:46,880
with these others and this particular

638
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:47,600
case

639
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,760
has remarkable crossover with some of

640
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:52,080
what i described with my own experiences

641
00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:54,880
last week and i think it'll become clear

642
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:56,880
why that's the case

643
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:59,360
here he is describing an orb above his

644
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:00,240
house

645
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:03,279
and his strange reaction to it

646
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,080
quote the orb was the apparent size of a

647
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,080
dime held at arm's length

648
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:10,080
through the binoculars i could detect an

649
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:12,159
oval-shaped dark gray spot at its

650
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:13,200
equator

651
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,720
i could tell that the sphere was

652
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,799
rotating on its vertical axis

653
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,559
because i watched the oval spot

654
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,480
disappear behind the left rim

655
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,480
and then re-emerge from behind the right

656
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,120
rim performing a 360 degree

657
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,240
circuit roughly every four minutes i sat

658
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:30,840
there spellbound for approximately 15

659
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:33,440
minutes on two or three occasions

660
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:35,520
i thought i've got to get a picture of

661
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,159
this but as soon as i had that thought

662
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,559
a second thought immediately followed

663
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,080
quickly countermanding

664
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:47,430
no this is not important you don't need

665
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:48,559
a picture

666
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,960
so i never took one having been a

667
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:53,039
professional photographer for nearly 10

668
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:55,120
years in the 1970s

669
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:58,840
i find this fact very odd and almost

670
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,000
inexplicable

671
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,559
after a while my eyelids became really

672
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:04,640
strangely heavy and my head started

673
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:05,520
nodding

674
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,520
i had had very little sleep the previous

675
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,919
night so i thought nothing of it at the

676
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:10,880
time

677
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:13,120
so with the objects still hovering there

678
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:14,240
i went inside

679
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:18,000
and took a nap even as i did so i was

680
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,760
thinking how strange it was

681
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:21,760
that i didn't stay outside to see what

682
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:23,520
might happen next

683
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:25,760
as soon as i laid down i fell into a

684
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:26,640
deep sleep

685
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,520
and did not awake until mid-afternoon

686
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:31,919
unquote

687
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:34,320
to be abundantly clear hastings has

688
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,520
clearly dedicated

689
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,400
his entire adult life decades and

690
00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:39,760
decades in fact

691
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:41,840
towards bringing public awareness to

692
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:43,279
this issue of

693
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:47,360
ufos and nukes the question that occurs

694
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:48,320
to him of course

695
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:51,919
is why he has been so driven are these

696
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:54,320
others which he now realizes he's been

697
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:55,440
interacting with

698
00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:58,159
since childhood responsible for this

699
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,720
sense

700
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,840
of mission quoting from the book he says

701
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:04,240
quote but the question i have always

702
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:05,120
asked myself

703
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:08,080
is why why have i been driven year after

704
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,480
year

705
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,480
to pursue this subject with such

706
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:12,640
diligence and passion

707
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,799
seeking out and interviewing military

708
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,960
veterans who had been told by their

709
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,400
former superiors

710
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,240
never to speak about their ufo

711
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:22,960
experiences at nuclear weapons sites

712
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,159
was not without risks as i will explain

713
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:28,720
unseen persons undoubtedly working for

714
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:30,159
some government group

715
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:32,240
have engaged in ongoing efforts to

716
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,440
intimidate me

717
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,600
presumably to force me to abandon my

718
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,400
research into very sensitive matters

719
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:40,400
while that harassment has diminished in

720
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:41,600
recent years

721
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:48,710
and this is what hastings has to say in

722
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,360
addition

723
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,440
regarding this nudge he may have

724
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:53,919
received from these others

725
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,279
quote the experiences i describe

726
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:59,520
in this book one going back to early

727
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:00,880
childhood

728
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,760
suggests at least to me that a very real

729
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,080
but mostly unseen guidance has

730
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,720
existed in my life emanating from a

731
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:10,320
source that might be called

732
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:13,440
alien if i am correct this outside

733
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:14,159
influence

734
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:16,880
in effect nudged me down a path that

735
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,200
culminated in my research career

736
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:21,840
and instilled in me that urgent sense

737
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,480
that i must publicly present my findings

738
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:26,720
as part of a consciousness raising

739
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:27,520
effort

740
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:31,840
unquote in terms of the general sense

741
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:33,039
hastings has

742
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:35,120
about his involvement with these others

743
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,480
and what it all means

744
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:38,880
what it leads towards this is what he

745
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:39,600
says

746
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,480
quote after years of enduring the

747
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:44,399
bizarre incidents that i have described

748
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,039
herein

749
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,440
and many more i have concluded that

750
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:50,320
something else must be going on

751
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:52,720
something involving a plan a pattern of

752
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,520
activity

753
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:55,840
and a goal something that has been

754
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,080
orchestrated from the outside with my

755
00:28:00,870 --> 00:28:00,159
own actions being only a secondary

756
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:00,880
element

757
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,520
in its execution in other words i

758
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:05,279
basically feel like a tool

759
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:08,559
in the hands of unknown forces not that

760
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:08,880
this

761
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:12,320
is if true necessarily a bad thing

762
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,480
if my work has contributed to people's

763
00:28:17,789 --> 00:28:16,960
awareness and understanding of the ufo

764
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,799
being's

765
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,760
well-documented interest in our

766
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,279
deadliest weapons

767
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:23,360
then i must also conclude that some

768
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,919
useful purpose has been served

769
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:27,840
as previously mentioned some of the

770
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:30,240
self-described abductees i have spoken

771
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,440
with over time

772
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,679
have similarly expressed their belief in

773
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:35,760
an altruistic game plan

774
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:38,320
underlying their ongoing encounters with

775
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:39,679
these entities

776
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:43,840
unquote now in regards to these

777
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:46,240
others clear interest in our nuclear

778
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:47,760
weapons development

779
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:50,480
we've been here before this particular

780
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:51,840
issue has been

781
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:54,720
addressed numerous times in this podcast

782
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:56,399
most recently when we discussed

783
00:29:02,149 --> 00:28:59,840
jacques villa's most recent book trinity

784
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:02,159
now interestingly i recently heard an

785
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:04,240
interview with kathleen martin

786
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:07,039
done by stuart davis for his excellent

787
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,679
aliens and artist podcast

788
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,919
and in that interview she talked about

789
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:13,120
being able to query

790
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:15,840
a council of ets through a kind of

791
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,720
medium

792
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,880
and she asked them specifically about

793
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,320
their apparent interest

794
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,559
and concern with our nuclear weapons

795
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,480
development

796
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:26,640
what they told her was that they are

797
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,760
deeply concerned

798
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,480
because our civilization has been to

799
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:32,399
this point before

800
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:35,440
in the distant past and apparently we

801
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,480
destroyed ourselves they said

802
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,799
they are intervening more directly now

803
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,640
because they do not want to see that

804
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,840
happen again

805
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,760
and this of course makes sense when we

806
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,120
think about the

807
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:49,120
increased level of incursions and

808
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:50,240
interactions

809
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:53,120
intervention in general by these others

810
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,080
since the dawn

811
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,200
of the atomic age

812
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:59,279
now in addition to discussing his own

813
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,320
sense of purpose

814
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:02,640
that came to him apparently from these

815
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,440
others

816
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,600
regarding raising awareness about the

817
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,960
catastrophic

818
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:08,799
potential of our nuclear weapons

819
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,000
programs

820
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:12,480
hastings also does an excellent job of

821
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,200
describing

822
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:15,840
the enigma of trying to study this

823
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:17,120
phenomenon

824
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:19,840
he discusses in detail the inadequacy of

825
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:20,720
science

826
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,000
based on its current assumptions quote

827
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:26,080
i am very much aware particularly in

828
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,679
regard to the phenomenon

829
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,679
that a measured and linear approach to

830
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,520
studying it is arguably

831
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:34,080
laughable how do you make sense of any

832
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,840
of it when there does not appear to be

833
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:36,720
any apparent

834
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:39,760
there there the phenomenon seems to work

835
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:41,039
on another level

836
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:44,159
consciousness dimensions unknown to our

837
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:45,200
science

838
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,960
a friend once remarked to me that

839
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:48,480
perhaps the phenomenon

840
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:51,279
seems to exist at the nexus of quantum

841
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,000
mechanics

842
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,960
and consciousness if that is so and i

843
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,080
personally believe

844
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,640
this may be a viable way forward then

845
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:01,200
our science needs to expand its horizons

846
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:02,880
to include things beyond

847
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:11,269
and on that note i'd like to offer this

848
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,559
concluding thought for your

849
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:14,399
consideration

850
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:17,120
to be clear the answer is not to reject

851
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:18,640
science and devolve

852
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,679
into a kind of magical thinking remember

853
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,919
what some perceive as magic is merely

854
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,080
the fruits of a technology

855
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,559
or a consciousness i might add that is

856
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:29,600
so advanced

857
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,320
that it is no longer recognized as such

858
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,039
by a less developed species

859
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:38,399
undoubtedly we need scientists involved

860
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:40,240
but we need a science that will

861
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:41,440
transcend

862
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:44,559
and include what has come before we need

863
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:44,799
an

864
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,960
approach that is open to exploring

865
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:48,080
possibilities

866
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:50,240
beyond what the current assumptions

867
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:51,440
allow

868
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:53,519
we need a true pioneering spirit of

869
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:54,480
discovery

870
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:57,039
as we delve into what in many ways is a

871
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:57,760
wholly

872
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,720
new frontier or the doorway to a

873
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:02,480
thousand new frontiers

874
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:05,200
perhaps distributed equally amongst

875
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:06,000
inner

876
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,840
and outer space and on that note

877
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,760
we've come to the close of another

878
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:13,679
edition of the point of convergence

879
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,880
podcast

880
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:17,279
as always let's keep this conversation

881
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,080
going

882
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:21,039
and ever growing but until next time

883
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,919
friends

884
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,200
from deep within the blue ridge